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 On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels

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Triggerman99
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PostSubject: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:36 pm



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The Nevada athletic commission tested Jon Jones on three separate occasions during December 2014. Two of these tests, both administered on December 4th, showed the presence of cocaine metabolites. What has received less discussion is that all three tests show abnormal levels of testosterone and/or epitestosterone.

All tests show his testosterone level being significantly below the normal margin. His T:E levels of  .35 .29 and .19 raise flags, but it is the actual levels of hormone detected which raise more questions.

On what appears to be his first test of December 4th, Jones testosterone levels measured at 59ng/dL. The normal range is 300ng/dL to 1100ng/dL. His epitestosterone levels measured at 170ng/dL. The normal range for epitestosterone is similar to that of testosterone.

On what appears to be his second test of that day, his testosterone levels had risen significantly to 180ng/dL, which is much closer to normal. His epitestosterone levels had also risen to 610ng/dL, which is perfectly normal.

On December 18th his testosterone levels are still lower than normal, at 180ng/dL, but his epitesterone appears to be massively elevated, coming in at 2700ng/dL. This is a red flag. Epitestosterone is produced in parallel with testosterone, and in a normal, healthy individual every 1ng/dL of testosterone produces roughly 1ng/dL of epitestosterone. Natural variance means anything from 0.7x to 2x are pretty common. Jon Jones had roughly 15x more epitestosterone than testosterone.

Disclaimer: The below is speculative and should not be construed as factual information or reporting.

What possible explanations are there for such odd results? Well for the low testosterone there are plenty. The normal levels are those taken first thing in the morning. If Jon Jones was tested late in the day, his levels would be slightly lower than normal anyway. If the tests came after a strenuous training session, this would lower them even further. Certain drugs, especially opiate based painkillers, can also have a very significant, though temporary, effect on testosterone levels and production.

I am personally unaware of any natural reason for epitestosterone to be over double the normal levels, especially while testosterone production is normal or low. Readings such as this are typically seen as red flags for drug testing agencies, as exogenous epitestosterone (that is, epitestosterone administered from an external source, not produced naturally by the body) is banned due to its use as a masking agent. Athletes were using epitestosterone to ensure their T:E ratios would not be too high on standard urine tests, leading to the ban by WADA and other organisations.

Another possibility is that the lab screwed up. Ben Bennett told Ariel Helwani that even though the testing documents state Jon Jones was tested for drugs not banned out of competition on December 18th, that he was in fact not tested for those substances on that date. That's a pretty significant typo, and it definitely means the spectre of incompetence looms over the results. The test results are reproduced below for perusal.

Lastly, it has to be noted that urine testing for testosterone levels is significantly less accurate than blood testing. All three tests appear to be urine tests only. It's also possible that the concentration/dilution of Jones' urine mean his levels look abnormally low. It should not affect the relative ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, though. Nor do I believe it would explain his extremely high epitestosterone level during his December 18th test, since his testosterone levels do not show the same abnormal raise.



http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/1/7/7510649/jon-jones-out-of-competition-drug-tests-all-show-abnormal-hormone


Last edited by Triggerman99 on Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:57 pm

dana needs to step up in this case and let everyone know who the boss is. this is not how he wants to start the year off.. 2015 is off to a worse start than 2014
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:11 pm

Suspect

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:53 am

all this crap does is convince me that our best champs are still guys like GSP and Silva and Hueghs,Chuck,Randy guys who got the job done and didnt need to cheat there way to it.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:37 pm

Gecko wrote:
all this crap does is convince me that our best champs are still guys like GSP and Silva and Hueghs,Chuck,Randy guys who got the job done and didnt need to cheat there way to it.

Who knows though, drug testing was not as comprehensive then. Randy was connected to a lot alternative aging methods and TRT as well.

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:01 pm

Also, I don't believe this is enough to warrant a suspension.
His actual testosterone levels are actually far below the normal range. What's odd is on his last test the ratio between testosterone and epitestosterone were way out of whack.

Unsure if that will be acted on.

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:59 pm

It's suspicious no matter the reasoning, if it has noting to do with drugs, it surely could be pointing to an unknown health condition Jones has.

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:03 pm

What's really suspicious is that it wasn't mentioned by anyone involved in the testing. How could you perform a test on a person in which you are specifically looking for exactly this sort of thing and somehow completely overlook it?!
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Fri Jan 09, 2015 8:05 am

Triggerman99 wrote:
What's really suspicious is that it wasn't mentioned by anyone involved in the testing. How could you perform a test on a person in which you are specifically looking for exactly this sort of thing and somehow completely overlook it?!

Thats what i was wondering. I mean if nothing else those results are suspicious as hell.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Fri Jan 09, 2015 2:44 pm

Yeah I just don't understand how through all of this, the screwed up hormone levels were never even so much as mentioned by the NAC or UFC.
Something stinks here.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:06 pm

Probably because nothing was actionable.
Technically, Jones did nothing in violation of the commission that would prevent him from fighting. So why do they need to disclose anything?

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:15 am

stock wrote:
Probably because nothing was actionable.
Technically, Jones did nothing in violation of the commission that would prevent him from fighting.  So why do they need to disclose anything?


At this point we are talking about the hormone levels not the coacaine.  Why was that not mentioned at all?  Isn't this what people get suspended for?  Elevated or lowered levels of testosterone?
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:10 pm

Well, technically his overall testosterone levels were abnormally LOW. It was just his epitestrone levels that were out of whack. I think that can be a red flag when combined with other odities, but nothing to be actionable alone.

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:53 am

stock wrote:
Well, technically his overall testosterone levels were abnormally LOW.  It was just his epitestrone levels that were out of whack.  I think that can be a red flag when combined with other odities, but nothing to be actionable alone.

Yeah but abnormally low is usually indicative of coming off a cycle.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:50 pm

Sure. But still not against the rules.

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:59 pm

stock wrote:
Sure.  But still not against the rules.

People have been questioned for a lot less. I mean most steroid busts are not from actually finding steroids in someones system its from elevated testosterone levels that cannot be obtained by natural means. Same for low levels.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:26 pm

All of that is true.
But the question was in response to the implication that the results (which are in no violation to any competition rules) were covered up or hidden.
They are out now, and Dana could choose to release him (just as he could for any reason... including just not liking someone).

I don't understand the reference that there is some sort of coverup here.

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:40 pm

I'm not understanding what your not understanding lol.

If anyone else had shown extreme low levels of testosterone three weeks prior to a fight would it be kept secret until after the fight?
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:02 pm

stock wrote:
All of that is true.
But the question was in response to the implication that the results (which are in no violation to any competition rules) were covered up or hidden.
They are out now, and Dana could choose to release him (just as he could for any reason... including just not liking someone).

I don't understand the reference that there is some sort of coverup here.
Well the implication (at least from my end) wasn't necessarily that someone was trying to protect Jones by covering something up. What I meant was that the NSAC is trying to cover up their own stupidity. They've clearly demonstrated major incompetence in the way they handled this whole situation from start to finish, but we the public are being given the "move along, nothing to see here" treatment, like we're just supposed to ignore the numerous, glaring fuck-ups and pretend like this never happened.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:28 am

FistK wrote:
I'm not understanding what your not understanding lol.

If anyone else had shown extreme low levels of testosterone three weeks prior to a fight would it be kept secret until after the fight?


That is my point.
Just because I don't scream from the mountaintops someones results (that are not in violation of preventing someone to fight) doesn't mean I am keeping a secret.

And to low levels after coming off a cycle I don't think holds water.  He had 3 separate tests done and all had low testosterone levels. All had expected epotesterone levels except for the last one.

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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:02 am

I think you are missing the point. It's not about what you would of done it's about what the UFC would of done. If someone besides Jones had those type of strange results 3 weeks prior everyone would of heard about it. Nothing more, nothing less.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:36 pm

stock wrote:

FistK wrote:
I'm not understanding what your not understanding lol.

If anyone else had shown extreme low levels of testosterone three weeks prior to a fight would it be kept secret until after the fight?



That is my point.
Just because I don't scream from the mountaintops someones results (that are not in violation of preventing someone to fight) doesn't mean I am keeping a secret.

And to low levels after coming off a cycle I don't think holds water.  He had 3 separate tests done and all had low testosterone levels. All had expected epotesterone levels except for the last one.

But the point is, this is the exact reason the UFC implemented out-of-competition drug testing; to catch strange things like this that could indicate foul play. Whether or not there is a smoking gun isn't the point. The point of the out-of-competition testing is to make sure there's nothing fishy going on during training that might not be noticed or detected when relying only on post-fight testing.
I think this falls into the category of something they definitely should've looked further into, and they didn't.
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PostSubject: Re: On Top of Being Positive for Cocaine, Jones' Test Results Apparently Show Very Abnormal Hormone Levels   Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:53 am

Triggerman99 wrote:

stock wrote:


FistK wrote:
I'm not understanding what your not understanding lol.

If anyone else had shown extreme low levels of testosterone three weeks prior to a fight would it be kept secret until after the fight?




That is my point.
Just because I don't scream from the mountaintops someones results (that are not in violation of preventing someone to fight) doesn't mean I am keeping a secret.

And to low levels after coming off a cycle I don't think holds water.  He had 3 separate tests done and all had low testosterone levels. All had expected epotesterone levels except for the last one.


But the point is, this is the exact reason the UFC implemented out-of-competition drug testing; to catch strange things like this that could indicate foul play. Whether or not there is a smoking gun isn't the point. The point of the out-of-competition testing is to make sure there's nothing fishy going on during training that might not be noticed or detected when relying only on post-fight testing.
I think this falls into the category of something they definitely should've looked further into, and they didn't.

Agreed.
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