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 Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.

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PostSubject: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:43 am

http://www.mmamania.com/2015/8/11/9134665/josh-thomson-bellator-mma-contract-ufc-match-reebok-fox


Well another leaves the UFC. Sucks too i like Josh a nice bit and puts on great fights.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:22 pm

"Thomson came up on the wrong end of split decision fights with both Bobby Green and Benson Henderson. Bad judging isn't UFC's fault, but by the time he lost the Tony Ferguson fight -- and the introduction of the controversial Reebok deal -- his heart no longer seemed to be with the promotion."


Thomson can keep saying it's about the money or the Reebok deal if he likes, but this is the same guy who has been publicly pondering retirement after seemingly every other fight over the last few years.
I don't think his heart is really all that much into fighting anymore, and I wouldn't be shocked to see him hang em up one or two fights into his Bellator deal, big money or not.


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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:41 pm

im happy that these guys are bouncing around. bellator really has a chance to grow and really give ufc a run for their money.
lets say conor gets mauled by aldo, then he loses to edgar or mendes the ufc loses a lot of hype. now throw in the fact that ronda has cleared out her division and is fighting tate for a 3rd time people are going to lose interest in watching her fight the same people over and over and this is will be another set back for ufc. the reebok deal has a lot of these guys on the fence and if bellator/viacom feel strong enough about mma and they throw the paper around you could see bellator being the premier mma org imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:01 pm

@drainbamage wrote:
im happy that these guys are bouncing around. bellator really has a chance to grow and really give ufc a run for their money.
lets say conor gets mauled by aldo, then he loses to edgar or mendes the ufc loses a lot of hype. now throw in the fact that ronda has cleared out her division and is fighting tate for a 3rd time people are going to lose interest in watching her fight the same people over and over and this is will be another set back for ufc. the reebok deal has a lot of these guys on the fence and if bellator/viacom feel strong enough about mma and they throw the paper around you could see bellator being the premier mma org imo.


I gotta disagree.
Not on the part about the UFC possibly (probably) losing fan interest as the few bright stars they currently have start to fade. That's inevitable, and has already happened 3 or 4 times before a new crop of stars can be harvested.
But I disagree about Bellator having a chance in hell to unseat the UFC as the premiere org. There's no way that's going to happen.
Yeah, a few fighters are jumping over to Bellator, but let's not pretend like Bellator is stealing top flight talent from the UFC and slowly chopping the UFC down in the process.
Look at the fighters who are going to Bellator. These guys aren't exactly marquee names. The list of fighters crossing over is almost exclusively made up of guys who couldn't hack it in the UFC anymore and are arriving in Bellator on losing streaks. Other than Phil Davis, which recent UFC transfer could even be justifiably mentioned in the same breathe as the top UFC fighters in their division?

Tito Ortiz is getting a fucking title shot for Christ's sake!!! lol
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:26 pm

@Triggerman99 wrote:

@drainbamage wrote:
im happy that these guys are bouncing around. bellator really has a chance to grow and really give ufc a run for their money.
lets say conor gets mauled by aldo, then he loses to edgar or mendes the ufc loses a lot of hype. now throw in the fact that ronda has cleared out her division and is fighting tate for a 3rd time people are going to lose interest in watching her fight the same people over and over and this is will be another set back for ufc. the reebok deal has a lot of these guys on the fence and if bellator/viacom feel strong enough about mma and they throw the paper around you could see bellator being the premier mma org imo.



I gotta disagree.
Not on the part about the UFC possibly (probably) losing fan interest as the few bright stars they currently have start to fade. That's inevitable, and has already happened 3 or 4 times before a new crop of stars can be harvested.
But I disagree about Bellator having a chance in hell to unseat the UFC as the premiere org. There's no way that's going to happen.
Yeah, a few fighters are jumping over to Bellator, but let's not pretend like Bellator is stealing top flight talent from the UFC and slowly chopping the UFC down in the process.
Look at the fighters who are going to Bellator. These guys aren't exactly marquee names. The list of fighters crossing over is almost exclusively made up of guys who couldn't hack it in the UFC anymore and are arriving in Bellator on losing streaks. Other than Phil Davis, which recent UFC transfer could even be justifiably mentioned in the same breathe as the top UFC fighters in their division?

Tito Ortiz is getting a fucking title shot for Christ's sake!!! lol


ufc has been on a decline since the fox deal we all know that. it has started to grow a small amount with mcgregor pulling in about 800k ppv buys and ronda around 900k ppv buys. but outside of them there isnt really anyone else doing "big" numbers and that is hurting them. its hurting them because the " new " stars are only 2 people ronda and conor and everyone else no one cares about and from a business standpoint that sucks. look at the ppv numbers for 2014-2015. its embarassing
02/01/2014 UFC 169 Barao vs Faber II 230,000
02/22/2014 UFC 170 Rousey vs McMann 350,000
03/15/2014 UFC 171 Hendricks vs Lawler 300,000
04/26/2014 UFC 172 Jones vs Teixeira 350,000
05/24/2014 UFC 173 Barao vs Dillashaw 215,000
06/14/2014 UFC 174 Johnson vs Bagautinov 115,000
07/05/2014 UFC 175 Weidman vs Machida 545,000
08/02/2014 UFC 176 Aldo vs Mendes II Canceled
08/30/2014 UFC 177 Dillashaw vs Soto 125,000
09/27/2014 UFC 178 Johnson vs Cariaso 205,000
10/25/2014 UFC 179 Aldo vs Mendes II 180,000
11/15/2014 UFC 180 Werdum vs Hunt 185,000
12/06/2014 UFC 181 Hendricks vs Lawler II 400,000
01/03/2015 UFC 182 Jones vs Cormier 800,000
01/31/2015 UFC 183 Silva vs Diaz 650,000
02/28/2015 UFC 184 Rousey vs Zingano 590,000
03/14/2015 UFC 185 Pettis vs Dos Anjos 310,000
04/25/2015 UFC 186 Johnson vs Horiguchi 125,000
05/23/2015 UFC 187 Johnson vs Cormier 375,000
06/13/2015 UFC 188 Velasquez vs Werdum 300,000
07/11/2015 UFC 189 McGregor vs Mendes 825,000
08/01/2015 UFC 190 Rousey vs Correia 900,000

ufc on fox/fs1/etc are probably averging 2 million plus viewers and for obvious reasons ( marketing, fighter promotions, social media, star quality, television slot, championship bouts, etc. )

what is impressive to me as an mma fan is the consistent numbers bellator has put together since 2014. this is with very limited star power, social media, marketing, etc. now if you add guys like phil davis, josh koscheck, josh thompson, and im sure there will be a lot of other people heading over there in due time this will take those numbers to a noticeably higher tv ratings. this will be bellator a nice buzz.

The complete TV viewership for Bellator since Coker took over is below.

Bellator 122: 572,000
Bellator 123: 667,000
Bellator 124: 771,000
Bellator 125: 742,000
Bellator 126: 656,000
Bellator 127: 609,000
Bellator 128: 668,000
Bellator 129: 564,000
Bellator 130: 664,000
Bellator 131: 1.2 million
Bellator 132: 767,000
Bellator 133: 565,000
Bellator 134: 872,000
Bellator 135: 607,000
Bellator 136: 655,000
Bellator 137: 594,000
Bellator 138: 2.3 million
Bellator 139: 764,000
Bellator 140: 775,000

with these TV ratings and really no star power if bellator keeps gaining these mid tier, some top tier guys that people were paying to watch on ppv it will help boost their numbers to possibly overcome the ufcs inconsistent rating for their fox deal and for their ppv.

they dont need to steal top tier fight talent because the ufc top tier fight talent isnt bringing in huge success for the ufc. They need to play it smart and keep in the direction that they are going in. I love the fact they are mixing the kickboxing and mma event into one night. I love the fact that they arent scared to put on freak show fights like kimbo and shamrock. its entertaining and it will appeal to more and more viewers. The reebok deal, the jon jones problems, the aldos pulling out of fight, the negative image of dana, the wages the fighters earn, the publicly embarrassing their employees or former employees is hurting the ufc and if they keep going in this same direction i think bellator will be very close in comparison to the ufc and potentially one day be the premier org of mma


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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:47 pm

Well like I said, I don't disagree with you that the UFC is in a lull right now. They definitely are, and they need to do something about it because it's only going to get worse if they don't.
But it's gonna take a helluva lot more than a drop in UFC ratings and a few UFC castoffs to vault Bellator past them as the top dog.
My point is that yes; the UFC is sagging right now. And yes; Bellator is in a bit of an upswing right now. But bringing in UFC rejects isn't going to be the answer for Bellator if it has aspirations of unseating the UFC. These guys can only take them so far, because they aren't top-flight stars. they are who they are, and who they are are fighters who the UFC doesn't need anymore. If the UFC really felt they needed to keep these guys on their roster and away from Bellator, they would currently be on the UFC roster and away from Bellator. You can bet on that.

The problem in this strategy is that people don't buy UFC PPVs to see Phil Davis, Josh Koscheck, Josh Thomson, or anybody else that has jumped ship to Bellator. They buy UFC PPVs to see the real stars; the headliners and main-eventers. If Bellator ever tried to headline a PPV with these guys and ask for anything even remotely close to what people consistently pay for a UFC PPV event it would end in disaster and embarrassment.

You're 100% right in that the UFC is struggling in their own right, and that Bellator is enjoying a bit of a golden age right now, but I just don't see the sustainability there in either case to lead me to believe that it could ever get to the point where Bellator would actually overtake or even come close to overtaking the UFC.
The gap is just too great, and the UFC has shown several times over that every time a legit "competitor" emerges, they have the ability to easily crush them. I don't see Bellator any more success than anybody else if they try to come for the crown.

They're better off haging around in 2nd place. It's safer there.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:11 pm

but the thing is these guys werent ufc castaways these are guys who willingly signed with bellator for a better deal ( davis and thompson). Im 100% confident that you will see other willingly top tier fighters sign with them too.

davis in his main slot on fox against rashad had 6 million viewers.
koscheck has always been a big draw for the ufc and he will be a big draw for bellator.
josh thompson also a decent draw but his fight style will put people in seats and he works well under coker.

that list will grow in the upcoming months.

bellator doesnt need ppv. what bellator needs to do is dominate the free television showings and blow the doors off of the ufc numbers. that is a very hard task and they havent had much success in doing it so far but with all the negative press and declining ratings with the ufc it is definitely a possibility for them to gain even more steam and make a run at the UFC. they also have a few budding stars in bellator that they are building up themselves. i think coker is an excellent fit for bellator and he will accomplish a lot with them look at what he did for strikeforce. he turned strikeforce into a household name and once it started making big waves the ufc bought strikeforce out and half of the roster that is a big draw for the ufc today is because of that strikeforce buy out. viacom has more money than the ufc so they wont be bought out and if viacom really believes that mma has a solid future they have enough money to make bellator the #1 mma org in the world no questions asked. but it all depends on the budget that they give to bellator.

the gap was too great but it has shrunk and it is consistently getting smaller. the ufc didnt crush the other competition they bought them out ( pride and strikeforce ). strikeforce in the golden day of ufc was starting to give them a run for their money and the ufc nailed the coffin shut with a huge check.

i know the ufc is the top of the top and i am not 100% sure that bellator will be the #1 org but if viacom believes in it and supports the budget then i think we have a run for the money showing..

just my opinion
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:54 pm

I guess we have a difference of opinion on what being the "top org" really means.

If Bellator takes mid-tier fighters from the UFC roster, makes them headliners, pays them a ton of money, and gets better free TV ratings than the UFC does it's free TV ratings (not PPV), then does that make them the "top org"?

Or if the UFC lets some of their mid-tier fighters go to Bellator for a better payday, but still has 90% of the best fighters in the world on their roster, does that make them the "top org"?


IMO the top org is where the best fighters are, not whichever one can make the most money on free TV by overpaying mid-level fighters.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:35 pm

no that wouldnt make them the top org at all. having the ratings increase to top ufc is the start to them making a true run to be the top mma org. what it would take imo is

1. keep recruiting the mid/upper level fighters from ufc who arent down with the ufc new implemented contracts/plans etc. and keep growing the people you have signed now and really focus on the next generation of fighters who are young and are watching all this negative press about the pay and everything else with the ufc. thats where it would really help bellator.

2. keep a clean name in the press. dont do anything stupid like elitexc fixing fights, dont have multiple incidents with your top tier fighters getting bad publicity like drug charges, dwi, champions getting popped for juice, beating their wives etc.

3. use social media to your advantage - bellator is horrible at doing this. their website sucks, they never advertise outside of spike, they have no social media impact what so ever. if they hired a team of people to do something in this area ( i dont know if it would work now but hopefully in the future ) i think this would help them out a lot.

4. keep the tournament style fights. - i think this is a great concept and people look forward to it. at least i do.. i would also like to see them bring cards back for the refs to use when fighters are dragging etc.

5. cross promote with kick boxing like they are doing at dynamite - the wrestling heavy base of mma is boring to casual fans and people want to see action, people want to see kos and brutal beatings so if you have kickboxing and mma events mixed it appeals to all for combat sports and mixes it up a bit.

6. pay the fighters more and make sure that they tell everyone about it. im sure there is a lot of buzz in gyms about losing sponsers and shit like that so if you could get more and more people who are on the fence to take the plunge it will be a big impact for mma.

7. hire new commentators- id love to see chael sonnen and mauro ranallo commentating they would bring a new energy to the live show.

8.viacoms budget- force them to use lots of money to take this thing off and keep it running for a long long time.

i dont disagree at all that the ufc is the top mma org we all know that. i also dont think tv ratings will make you the best mma org. i think the process of gaining the mid tier fighters, boosting tv ratings, well compensated fighters who are allowed to have multiple sponsers will have an impact on the upper level fighters top 10 , possibly top 5 that already exist in the ufc. But i think the focus should be the people we dont even know about - those young fighters who will be the future of mma and who want to make lots of money and all that other jazzy stuff. that would put bellator into the top position considering ufc keeps declining like it has.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:40 pm

@drainbamage wrote:
no that wouldnt make them the top org at all.

Great post, but right here is where it's clear that we're not on the same page.

As long as the UFC has the best fighters, they will be the top org.
If Bellator does everything right and eventually manages to somehow employ more of the best fighters in the world on their roster than the UFC has on it's roster, then Bellator would be the top org.

I think what you're saying is that if Bellator does all of those things you mentioned and the UFC keeps on it's current downward trend, then Bellator could eventually unseat them from the top.
If that's the case, then yes; I would agree. I don't know what the exact formula would be to make that happen, but if it did, then there would be no debate that Bellator is the premiere org.

It just looked like in some of your previous posts that you were giving more weight to promotion and Spike TV views than to actual talent.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:09 pm

thanks bud.

originally i was doing that because i was thinking of it ratings wise.
the more i think about it the clearer it becomes to me what bellator should do.
they have a golden opportunity here and its sitting on their laps. UFC will be extremely hard to dethrone BUT it is possible and if it is going to be done by anyone id bet it is bellator.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:11 pm

I could see Bellator eventually becoming a PRIDE type rival if they keep putting on good free cards and the UFC keeps shutting on its fans.  With the Reebok deal Bellator should have a better time keeping the top talent that it develops which will be a big step in the right direction.

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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:18 am

this might be just the beginning. Bellator is not using social media to spread the word about itself because, i have a feeling, they are in the clear vision that ufc is doing it for them. By making themselves look bad. All the bad treatment of employees, underpaid fighters, reebok deal, Dana making an ass out himself and the company by playing the "big brother" role of a modern corporation and the shameless WWE style of latest attempts to jump the gap between fans that love it for the fighting and new ones that dont know anything and are enticed by flair. (i have a few of those friends and i know that they will go where true fans go)
If it continues, more fighters will jump ship and new talent might sign there first. People may like fighting but no one likes getting beat up for a living and that is where respect and money come in, as a counterbalance.
I expect bellator to up its promotional game when they feel like its time to pounce on a dying animal. Right now its too soon
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:13 pm

i agree with both of you guys.
the ball is in bellators court and now its up to the ufc to make the necessary changes to remain on top or they will be in for a surprise in the future.
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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:54 pm

Now Bader is talking about having to think about "other options" if a title fight isn't in line...
I guarantee we start see fighters ride out their contracts and test the free agency market.

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PostSubject: Re: Josh Thompson leaves UFC for Bellator says reebok deal had a lot to do with it.   Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:48 am

i read that article too. this is exactly why bellator is a huge thorn in the side to the UFC. its giving these fighters a chance to play both sides of the fence. and they never really had that option since MMA became so popular.
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