UFC & MMA News, Updates, Discussion & Virtual Betting
 
UFC & MMA NewsMMA RankingsHomeCalendarFAQSearchMemberlistUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Latest topics
Poll
Mayweather Vs. McGregor who wins?
Mayweather wins KO
17%
 17% [ 1 ]
Mayweather wins UD
50%
 50% [ 3 ]
Mayweather wins SD
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Mayweather wins DQ
17%
 17% [ 1 ]
McGregor wins KO
17%
 17% [ 1 ]
McGregor wins UD
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
McGregor wins SD
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
McGregor wins DQ
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Draw
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 6
Most active topic starters
Chrom
 
Triggerman99
 
drainbamage
 
Gecko
 
9Teen_AT4
 
Krieger
 
butterknifeninja
 
stock
 
samger2
 
FistK
 
Most active topics
The WTF Thread
The Walking Dead
Horrible Facebook Posts...
Fantasy League Season 4
Introduce Yourself Get $500 Standard Cash!
Random video of the week
The Ultimate Fighter: Team Jones vs Team Sonnen *Spoilers*
The Ultimate Fighter Rousey vs Tate *spoilers*
Crank up the Tunes!
The Ultimate Fighter 20 Discussion Thread (*SPOILERS*)
Affiliates
October 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
      1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
3031     
CalendarCalendar
Similar topics
Affiliates
free forum


Share | 
 

 a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:30 am

I'm just siting here thinking about fighters and fights to make and the elite fighters of todays MMA especially the UFC because that is where all the HW talent is but man this division is super weak. its almost pathetic. they really need to invest in more young HW talent. With no super fights to be made in the HW division and half of this roster to most likely be out of competition in a few years they need to work fast.

every other division has multiple superstars and consistent fighters.. marketable guys etc. why is it that the HW division has always been shit for the UFC? the belt has never been defended more than 2 times from the same champion.

I don't know if anyone cares about this discussion because I know this is a lot of repeated stuff from other posts but I was raised watching combat sports and always leaned towards the HW division of fighters and I was always told without a HW division there is nothing ( this was more applied towards boxing ) but I think that the UFC could benefit a lot from investing in new, young, talent..

1. fabricio werdum- 39 years old.he is getting up there in age but i do believe even at his age that he is the most elite HW

2. Stipe Miocic- 34 years old. guy is super overrated imo. he hasn't fought anyone that solidifies him as an elite fighter. wins over arlovski, and hunt are his only notable wins and both guys are ancient in MMA years and arlovski has the weakest chin and hunt also has a very questionable chin. not elite

3. overeem- 36 years old. the most unpredictable of all HW guy I ssuper talented but has such a spotty record. his inconsistencies are overbearing at times. Does the usda regulations alter his game? does training at jacksons really make him a better fighter? so far he has proven that jacksons game planning and strategy has been effective. I think overeem is legit. elite imo

4. ben rothwell- 34 years old.. gatekeeper to the elite.. guy can take a beating. he could give a beating. he could ko you. he could choke you out. most of the time with a few exceptions against top 5 talent he will under deliver. exciting guy to watch fight tho. not elite

5. arlovski- at 37 years old the run was nice while it lasted. guy has been walking on thin ice for a while. even tho he strung together a few wins everyone knew it was just a matter of time until his shine dimmed out. cant expect much out of him at this stage of the game. not elite

6.JDS- 32 years old. when he is focused and prepared to fight the guy is amazing. he needs to stay grounded and work on his boxing defense. guy would be amazing if he focused on judo - hip tossing and take downs would be huge for him against other elite strikers and grapplers. guy is definitely elite imo

7. travis browne- 34 years old. cheater, and alleged wife beater. I personally cant stand this guy. in 2013 he was the best HW in the world. guy showed incredible striking agility, speed, and creativity. dude flat lined overeem and barnet in highlight fashion but since then its been downhill. he cheated against mitrione and he sucks for that. with the exception of 2013 guy has nothing to offer. not elite

8.cain velasquez- at 33 cain has a lot of years left to prove his worth... dude is a finisher, has sick cardio, and could strike.. if he could stay healthy and fight different opponents it would really benefit him. id like to see a rematch vs werdum and id like to see him fight stipe because stipe and cain are the most athletic in that division and it would be really interesting to see how they handled each other. cain is elite imo as long as he could stay healthy

9. josh Barnett- 39 years old. rarely fights. slow and often out of shape. strict testing and a spotty past with the nac this guy is fighting for checks and isn't going anywhere in this division as he has proved. time has passed. not elite anymore

10. mark hunt- 42 years old. one trick pony with no gbig wins to justify him as an elite fighter. guy is just exciting to watch and that is the extent of him as a fighter. not elite

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Triggerman99
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 5970
Standard Cash : 56994
Reputation : 510
Join date : 2011-07-11
Age : 36
Location : New York

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:47 pm

Not to oversimplify it, but I think the division is just in a downward trend right now. It's happened to every division at some point.
I don't think it's really true to say the UFC HW division has always been shit. Back when Lesnar was champ there were a lot of fun and compelling fights that happened, and just as importantly, a lot that could've happened but didn't. That's a sign that a division is thriving.
I also don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that there hasn't been one dominant champ to rule the division and defend the belt multiple times. At least to me, a dominant champ is not an indication that a division is or is not compelling. I don't think one has anything to do with the other.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:32 pm

with the ages of these guys and no new blood in the HW division I cant imagine where it will be in 3-5 years. I personally think the HW division has always been the weakest in the UFC and I believe that a belt constantly changing hands shows sign of an unstable roster of fighters. that's just my personal opinion. I for one like the top of the line dominant champ who guys are dying to fight and beat because I think that puts added fire under them. Brock Lesnar is a perfect example of that ( just like conor McGregor ) as soon as he got that belt there wasn't a sentence mentioned about MMA without Brocks name in it. LHW fighters wanted to move up and super HW guys wanted to cut just to face him. I think when you have a dominate champ it always benefits the roster of fighters in that division because you have a face that most likely people are behind and if you beat that person you are the next big thing...

There is very limited HW options. Its not like there are multiple fight orgs that you could pull from to build it up. between Bellator and WSOF there really isn't any talent to focus on and on the regional circuit there isn't any new or promising guys that anyone has even indicated to be stars.

I don't know why I'm so caught up on this but it just seems strange to me like the HW division is going to be a thing of the past and it is slowly being erased and MMA will be geared to lighter weight classes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Chrom
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
avatar

Posts : 5918
Standard Cash : 20149
Reputation : 257
Join date : 2011-07-06
Age : 36
Location : Minnesota

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:27 pm

It certainly does look like a weakening division. It seems to have hit "hard peaks" so to speak, every once in a while. They had big names to deliver when they needed them, but they quickly burned out. I feel the HW's are back to pre-Brock essentially. No one overly impressive and I agree it is a highly aged division. I pretty much agree with everything you said drainbamage.

________________________________________________

"Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick. Everyone knows that a burrow owl lives in a hole in the ground. Why the hell do you think they call it a burrow owl, anyway?"
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FistK
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1648
Standard Cash : 10138
Reputation : 189
Join date : 2011-07-18

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:59 pm

HW division is difficult no matter what.  The fuckers hit so hard its tough to have anybody dominate for a long period because everyone has one punch power.

But what is this hunt having a very questionable chin stuff???  You are lucky I kept reading after such blasphemy!  I think i pee'd in my pants a little after seeing that...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Triggerman99
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 5970
Standard Cash : 56994
Reputation : 510
Join date : 2011-07-11
Age : 36
Location : New York

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:06 pm

FistK wrote:


But what is this hunt having a very questionable chin stuff???  You are lucky I kept reading after such blasphemy!  I think i pee'd in my pants a little after seeing that...


Yeah I had to read that twice too. I'm not sure where that came from! lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:02 pm

I'm being serious at this stage when he fights an elite striker he has a very suspect chin.
what would lead you to think anything different at this stage?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Krieger
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 2176
Standard Cash : 3335
Reputation : 194
Join date : 2011-08-12
Location : Calgary

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:51 pm

UFC HW division these days is just the Bellator waiting room.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FistK
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1648
Standard Cash : 10138
Reputation : 189
Join date : 2011-07-18

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:00 pm

drainbamage wrote:
I'm being serious at this stage when he fights an elite striker he has a very suspect chin.
what would lead you to think anything different at this stage?

Because I watch his fights and he still takes shots in stride that would KO any other fighter.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:00 pm

I understand that but what I'm trying to say is that he is prone to getting ko/tko. half of his losses are tko/ko so to me that is a suspect chin.

I know he could take punishment but sooner or later he will drop against an elite striker. his other fights aren't long enough to see how durable his chin is.

guys like diego sanchez, clay guida, nick diaz, roy nelson, etc are unstoppable and for the most part wont go down.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Triggerman99
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 5970
Standard Cash : 56994
Reputation : 510
Join date : 2011-07-11
Age : 36
Location : New York

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:01 pm

FistK wrote:

drainbamage wrote:
I'm being serious at this stage when he fights an elite striker he has a very suspect chin.
what would lead you to think anything different at this stage?


Because I watch his fights and he still takes shots in stride that would KO any other fighter.

Yeah I'm just not seeing any evidence to support this assessment that he's become chinny.

Other than succumbing to a knee strike to the face in the 2nd round against the HW champion, where's is this being demonstrated? His only other KO/TKO losses of late are to JDS after almost 3 full rounds and 80 strikes landed on him and to Stipe Miocic after almost 5 full rounds and an amazing 361 strikes landed.
If he has a suspect chin, he wouldn't be eating almost 450 strikes against two of the scariest strikers in the HW division before going down.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:05 pm

he has a solid chin but he has been stopped by multiple people from strikes in his career.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Triggerman99
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 5970
Standard Cash : 56994
Reputation : 510
Join date : 2011-07-11
Age : 36
Location : New York

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:09 pm

Well how can you have a suspect chin and a solid chin at the same time??? lol

I think maybe you should reword that, because "suspect chin" means something very specific.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:36 pm

I know. I dug myself into a hole and I don't know exactly how to phrase what I'm thinking.

I know he has a solid chin but he could be put away from strikes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:39 pm

I personally wouldn't put him in the same category of "chins" like a diego, guida, nelson, edgar
but maybe I'm wrong..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Triggerman99
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 5970
Standard Cash : 56994
Reputation : 510
Join date : 2011-07-11
Age : 36
Location : New York

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:09 pm

I think his solid chin is what keeps him in fights he has no business being in for as long as he's in them.
He gets put away by faster strikers who keep beating him to the punch over and over again and eventually just wilts due to the accumulation of punishment, but if he had a suspect chin he would be out of the fight long before he even had a chance to eat hundreds of punches.

I'm not sure what you would call that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FistK
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1648
Standard Cash : 10138
Reputation : 189
Join date : 2011-07-18

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:21 am

Yeah I am with Trigg.

IMO Hunt's chin is actually legendary and I put it up there with one of the best ever.

If you want to say his striking defense is sub par making him suseptible to eventual KO's if he cant put a guy away I will definitely roll with that, but not his chin. Dude walked through CroCop headkicks back in the day and didnt flinch during the recent beating he took from Stipe who looked like he was about to have a nervous breakdown because he discovered he was fighting a zombie lol That was enough to convince me the chin is still there.

But yes he can be suseptible to stoppages against elite level fighters, because he eats so many shots, but his chin keeps him in longer than almost anyone elses would.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
norcalmatt
Pro Fighter
Pro Fighter


Posts : 1076
Standard Cash : 13993
Reputation : 103
Join date : 2011-07-10
Age : 41
Location : high up in the sierra nevadas (ca)

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:52 am

id say he has one of the most suspect chins in all of mma ever.......I suspect its made of a space aged metal that nobody knows about yet and I suspect it is indestructible!!!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FistK
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1648
Standard Cash : 10138
Reputation : 189
Join date : 2011-07-18

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:57 am

norcalmatt wrote:
id say he has one of the most suspect chins in all of mma ever.......I suspect its made of a space aged metal that nobody knows about yet and I suspect it is indestructible!!!

This. lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:14 pm

I think werdum, manhoef, and jds would have something to say about that
Back to top Go down
View user profile
norcalmatt
Pro Fighter
Pro Fighter


Posts : 1076
Standard Cash : 13993
Reputation : 103
Join date : 2011-07-10
Age : 41
Location : high up in the sierra nevadas (ca)

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:34 pm

when has mark hunt had the lights turned completely out ala connor aldo ? I'm really asking.....and if he has had them turned out did it happen with 1 quick punch in the 1st round or did it take multiple rounds of softening it up...and were his lights out or was it a tko stoppage due to punches but he was still aware of his surroundings? because I hate when a guy is "ko'd" but more accurately should be tko because he never at any point was actually "knocked out"..... if a dude gets hit over and over in the face by some of the hardest hitting guys on the planets and finally goes down after 10-15-20 min of taking those shots...I have a hard time calling the chin suspect....nobodys argueing that hes the best fighter to walk the earth and any time hes lost must have been a fluke...hes no fedor....

all the guys you mentioned to have super human chins except roy nelson are light weights or lower.....and nick up to ww.....in these divisions the abuse in minimal compaired to the amount of force behind a hw's fist.....if we bring physics in to the picture it only helps the defense of hunts chin.....
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:14 am



yeah lights out by a middleweight 18 seconds into the first round-- physics??



flash ko from werdum - 2nd round



lights out again from jds - 3rd round



and I'm not being a dick when I say this and i might be 100% wrong but I hate when people say that about the hw division. I understand they hit harder than a ww but the guys competing in the hw division are built stronger than ww or the lighter weight classes. just because diego sanchez who fought at 185, 170, 155, and 145 is smaller than any hw that doesn't discredit the striking credentials of the people he has faced. a ko artist is a ko artist no matter what the division they are in. Again, as I mentioned in the other posts maybe I worded it differently than I should have. I know that hunt has a solid chin but he is stoppable and can be lights out kod as he has been in the past. I'm not denying that he could take punishment to an extreme level more so than most other fighters but the fact is he has been flat lined several times and to me it is I don't know what else to call it but suspect or questionable. I'm not saying he has a weak chin if that is what anyone is thinking.

just for the fuck of it here are the 2015 stats from stoppages from fights.
thought it was intresting

HEAVYWEIGHT

Number of fights: 28
Knockouts: 16
Submissions: Two
Decisions: 10
Other: Zero

Most knockouts in divisional history: Velasquez (nine)

LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT

Number of fights: 26
Knockouts: 13
Submissions: Four
Decisions: Nine

Most stoppages in divisional history: Jones and Liddell (nine)
Most knockouts in divisional history: Liddell (nine)

MIDDLEWEIGHT

Number of fights: 56
Knockouts: 24
Submissions: Eight
Decisions: 21
Other: Three

Most stoppages in divisional history: Anderson Silva (11)
Most knockouts in divisional history: Silva (eight)

WELTERWEIGHT

Number of fights: 88
Knockouts: 31
Submissions: 17
Decisions: 39
Other: One

Most stoppages in divisional history: Matt Brown and Matt Hughes (11)
Most knockouts in divisional history: Brown (nine)


LIGHTWEIGHT

Number of fights: 100
Knockouts: 24
Submissions: 21
Decisions: 54
Other: One

Most stoppages in divisional history: Joe Lauzon (11)
Most knockouts in divisional history: Melvin Guillard (seven)


FEATHERWEIGHT

Number of fights: 56
Knockouts: 21
Submissions: Nine
Decisions: 24
Other: Two

Most stoppages in divisional history: Three fighters tied with six
Most knockouts in divisional history: McGregor (six)

BANTAMWEIGHT

Number of fights: 37
Knockouts: 11
Submissions: 8
Decisions: 17
Other: One

Most stoppages in divisional history: Dillashaw & Faber (six)
Most knockouts in divisional history: Dillashaw (five)

WOMEN’S BANTAMWEIGHT

Number of fights: 20
Knockouts: Five
Submissions: Five
Decisions: 10

Most stoppages in divisional history: Rousey (six)
Most knockouts in divisional history: Rousey and Amanda Nunes (three)

FLYWEIGHT

Number of fights: 36
Knockouts: Seven
Submissions: Six
Decisions: 23

Most stoppages in divisional history: Four fighters tied with four
Most knockouts in divisional history: John Lineker (four)

Number of fights: 24
Knockouts: Two
Submissions: Nine
Decisions: 13

Most stoppages in divisional history: Three fighters tied with two
Most knockouts in divisional history: Jedrzejczyk (two)






Back to top Go down
View user profile
Triggerman99
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 5970
Standard Cash : 56994
Reputation : 510
Join date : 2011-07-11
Age : 36
Location : New York

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:25 pm

Yeah theres nothing there that really changes anything. The JDS knockout is exactly what everyone says it was; an accumulation of punishment, followed by a strong finishing strike. The Werdum KO wasn't a KO, but a straight knee down the middle that rocked him followed by Werdum moving in quickly and forcing the ref to step in, but Hunt was not out cold. The Manhoef one was a clean, legit KO, but one KO from years ago against a brutally powerful striker like Manhoef does not = easily KO-able or weak chinned or whatever.

But again, we're not saying he's weak chinned, right? We're saying he's.......what? A guy who can possibly be finished if you punch him enough times but can take more of those punches than most other fighters which is almost the exact opposite of weak-chinned?
Yeah, that seems accurate.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FistK
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1648
Standard Cash : 10138
Reputation : 189
Join date : 2011-07-18

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:53 pm

Exactly - I defy you to find me one human being in the worlf that would not have been out cold from Werdum's knee and Hunt was still trying to defend himself.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
drainbamage
Title Holder
Title Holder
avatar

Posts : 1585
Standard Cash : 7830
Reputation : 109
Join date : 2011-08-15
Location : far from the projects

PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:58 pm

changes exacly what the question at hand was..
was he ever kod and yes he was out cold in all of those videos I posted including the werdum fight. he went limp and werdum punched him back into a conscious state.

jds didn't maul hunt he only landed 70 strikes in that fight in a total of 3 rounds. he landed a shitload of distance jabs and a bunch of off balanced haymakers. that wasn't a clinic that jds put on hunt.

a middleweight kod him in 18 seconds

we could use as many words as we want to try to soften the blow but the fact is matt asked "when has mark hunt had the lights turned completely out ala connor aldo ? I'm really asking.....and if he has had them turned out did it happen with 1 quick punch in the 1st round or did it take multiple rounds of softening it up...and were his lights out or was it a tko stoppage due to punches but he was still aware of his surroundings?" and the answer is yes and these weren't from an overabundant amount of strikes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   

Back to top Go down
 
a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 3Go to page : 1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» I learned some things this weekend...
» Montreal Canadiens - Current Roster
» Ato B's - 10 things retired athletes know that active athletes don't
» Boston Bruins - Current Roster
» Ottawa Senators - Current Roster

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
The MMA Standard :: UFC-
Jump to: