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 a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!

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norcalmatt
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:05 pm

I did ask if he was ever lights out ko'd as a serious question....the manhoef ko doesn't define huts career or chin.....and the werdum is a perfect example of not  KO but tko and is exactly what I was wondering about....I don't consider that to have anything to do with a suspect chin and 1 lights out ko many years ago doesn't make your chin suspect....we can agree to disagree on this one.....nothing that has gone down in mark hunts career leads me to believe he has a weak chin.


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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:08 pm

FistK wrote:
Exactly - I defy you to find me one human being in the worlf that would not have been out cold from Werdum's knee and Hunt was still trying to defend himself.


overeem, roy nelson, big nog, travis browne and many more that is a tool werdum uses in every single fight and has landed flush against each one of those guys mentioned
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:12 pm



/drops mic
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:15 pm

norcalmatt wrote:
I did ask if he was ever lights out ko's as a serious question....the manhoef ko doesn't define huts career or chin.....and the werdum is a perfect example of noy  KO but tko and is exactly what I was wondering about....I don't consider that to have anything to do with a suspect chin and 1 lights out ko many years ago doesn't make your chin suspect....we can agree to disagree on this one.....nothing that has gone down in mark hunts career leads me to believe he has a weak chin.


jds and manhoef were just as bad as conors ko of aldo and werdum tko'd hunt but if you watch the video he went completely limp and then he regained consciousness. guy could barely walk.

and yeah we could agree to disagree but I never mentioned him as having a weak chin.
what I was mentioning was in his 12 fights in the ufc 4 were loses and 3 of them were tko/ko and to me that's a questionable chin. not saying that my opinion is right or wrong but that's what I believe 25% of his ufc fights he was tko/ko'd
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:30 pm

so overeems 3 tko/ko losses dont make his chin suspect and hes still in the superchin category? I just don't see your logic on this one

and big nog????? his multiple ko's and hes still a superchin??


I'm not seeing it and I'm out because I have nothing further to add and would only be arguing at this point
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:41 pm

norcalmatt wrote:
so overeems 3 tko/ko losses dont make his chin suspect and hes still in the superchin category?  I just don't see your logic on this one

and big nog?????  his multiple ko's and hes still a superchin??  


I'm not seeing it and I'm out because I have nothing further to add and would only be arguing at this point


you should read why I wrote those names before you pass judgment homie..

fist asked who could have taken that knee without being kod and I mentioned just a few people who ate multiple knees just like the one that floored hunt.. but those guys weren't floored in that fight and yes I agree that nog and overeem has very suspect chins which makes it even funnier during this convo.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:34 pm

drainbamage wrote:
changes exacly what the question at hand was..

Well no actually, that was not the original question at hand.
Let's recap:

drainbamage wrote:
hunt also has a very questionable chin

To which this was asked:

FistK wrote:
But what is this hunt having a very questionable chin stuff???

Which took us to the discussion of whether or not he has a weak chin before branching off into dissecting who said what and technically answering parts of questions while avoiding answering the parts we can't or don't want to answer.

And then this happened:

drainbamage wrote:
he has a solid chin but he has been stopped by multiple people from strikes in his career.

Triggerman99 wrote:
Well how can you have a suspect chin and a solid chin at the same time??? lol

drainbamage wrote:
I know he has a solid chin but he could be put away from strikes.

drainbamage wrote:
Again, as I mentioned in the other posts maybe I worded it differently than I should have. I know that hunt has a solid chin but he is stoppable and can be lights out kod as he has been in the past. I'm not denying that he could take punishment to an extreme level more so than most other fighters but the fact is he has been flat lined several times and to me it is I don't know what else to call it but suspect or questionable. I'm not saying he has a weak chin if that is what anyone is thinking.

drainbamage wrote:
and yeah we could agree to disagree but I never mentioned him as having a weak chin.
what I was mentioning was in his 12 fights in the ufc 4 were loses and 3 of them were tko/ko and to me that's a questionable chin.


So first you said he has a questionable chin. Then you said he has a solid chin (which is pretty much the opposite of "questionable"). Then you furthered that point by pointing out that he can take punishment more than most fighters and said he definitely does not have a weak chin. Then you went back the other way and put up a few posts and videos seemingly trying to demonstrate that he does have a weak chin and wrapped it up by reverting back to again stating that he has a "questionable chin".

So why don't we back up and have you pick which observation you're going with and stick with it, because this thread is making me retarded. lol
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:24 pm

FistK wrote:


/drops mic


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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:17 pm

ok so let me make this easy

when I said it changes the question at hand I was clearly talking about what matt asked. he asked if he ever had his lights turned out. he did. no matter if it was 10 years ago or 2 years ago to answer matts questions yes he was put out

matts question
when has mark hunt had the lights turned completely out ala connor aldo ? I'm really asking.....and if he has had them turned out did it happen with 1 quick punch in the 1st round or did it take multiple rounds of softening it up...and were his lights out or was it a tko stoppage due to punches but he was still aware of his surroundings? wrote:

so I posted 4 videos of him being ko'd

trigs response
Yeah theres nothing there that really changes anything. The JDS knockout is exactly what everyone says it was; an accumulation of punishment, followed by a strong finishing strike. The Werdum KO wasn't a KO, but a straight knee down the middle that rocked him followed by Werdum moving in quickly and forcing the ref to step in, but Hunt was not out cold. The Manhoef one was a clean, legit KO, but one KO from years ago against a brutally powerful striker like Manhoef does not = easily KO-able or weak chinned or whatever. wrote:

my response
changes exacly what the question at hand was. was he ever kod and yes he was out cold in all of those videos I posted wrote:


as I clearly stated when I say he has a suspect chin MAYBE I worded it wrong because I know he has a SOLID chin and can take punishment more than most of the fighters BUT in his last 7 fights he has been ko/tko 3 times and AT THIS STAGE of his career his chin is questionable to me. I haven't changed my stance at all since the first statement and to be honest I stand by what I wrote 1000%.

fist asked
Exactly - I defy you to find me one human being in the worlf that would not have been out cold from Werdum's knee and Hunt was still trying to defend himself. wrote:

and I responded with several people who took the same knee multiple times in werdum fights and weren't kod or dropped. that's not me flip flopping saying hunt has a weak chin that's me answering the question that fist asked because werdums knees are a tool he always uses in fights.

the videos I posted were because matt asked was he ever lights out kod... I answered it by posting videos.. again not me stating that hunt has a weak chin just me answering the questions that people are throwing out to me.

so I have maintained my stance on hunts chin and I answered everyones questions with facts.

matt- was hunt ever lights out kod? yes a few times
fist- who could eat those knees that hunt did... most fighters who fought werdum

anyone else have any questions that need to be answered because I said that I think he has a suspect/questionable ( not weak chin ) chin at this stage of his career and he has been tko/kod 3 out of last 7 fights?

if not I'm done.





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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:51 pm

Well yes, actually, I do still have a few questions.

Now that we've sorted through all the offshoots and gotten back to the original question- the ORIGINAL question; not the 45 freakin different questions about who can take what knee to who's face or whatever- I'll ask it again;

What makes his chin questionable?
You say all of those videos you posted show him being knocked out cold, but that's just plain inaccurate. Anyone who watched them can see that he was not completely KO'd in any one save for the Manhoef one (which isn't really conducive to your point anyway, since it was a long time ago, and you're contending that his chin is weak AT THIS STAGE of his career).
Regarding all but the Manhoef KO, it's been mine and pretty much everyone else's contention that Hunt's KO/TKO losses are the result of cumulative damage that occurs over the first few rounds of the fight and causes him to eventually succumb to a fight stopping blow later on, either due to being temporarily half braindead after eating 100 or so punches, or possibly being slower on the defense after being beaten to shit for 10 to 20 minutes straight. All of those fights fit into that category. None of them were quick, early, one shot KOs that instantly put him out. And fighters that lose via quick, early, one shot KOs are the ones that are often referred to as having weak or suspect chins.
Think Chuck Liddell late in his career. That's how his fights ended. That's not at all how Hunt's fights end.
Guy's who take 100 punches and keep coming forward before eventually getting dropped do not have suspect chins. They have suspect composure or suspect gameplans, but not suspect chins.

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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:08 pm

We all want our MMA heros to last forever but time, number of hits to the head, rounds in the ring etc all conspire to diminish a fighters ability to receive continuous blows to the head. As he moves through the sport "chins" will "become suspect" or better put ability to absorb and recover from concussive blows to he head will lessen more and more. One hopes they retire before permanent serious damage occurs.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:04 pm

What makes his chin questionable?

3 tko/ko loses in  last 7 fights



this is just not accurate.

1. jds - that was a lack luster fight. both guys had moments and junior only landed a total of 80 strikes which isn't that great of an amount of strikes compared to hunts 35. hunt was in that fight the entire time. yes jds is a faster striker and I'm pretty sure hunts physique will allow anyone to realize that but what youre saying just isn't true about the amount of punishment he took in this fight. this was a one shot ko after a back and forth fight.  he was completely lights out flat lined in that fight. reason why I question his chin at this stage

2. werdum fight- he landed a whopping 30 strikes compared to hunts 15 strikes. again what youre saying isn't true. these stats don't lie. werdum was dropped in this fight and was taken down by hunt. but after watching another angle of that fight I was wrong he wasn't out cold. the angle I was watching looked like he went limp and werdum hit him and it woke him up but that wasn't the case. still hunt took a knee that almost every fighter who has faced werdum took and wasn't dropped by it. this is a reason why its questionable to me at this stage

3. stipe fight- he got mauled. that was disgusting and those numbers are embarrassing. I don't have anything to say about this fight.


I'm not comparing or insinuating that hunt is along the lines of liddell. I understand that there is a difference in the way chuck has been finished and the way hunt has been finished. I'm also saying it again I DONT THINK HUNT HAS A WEAK CHIN but I do think at this stage it is questionable. the only fight that anyone could disagree with me is the stipe fight and I'm not arguing it. werdum finished him with a standard knee and a few ground strikes, jds finished him with a kick that years ago hunt would have ate ala crocop. the werdum fight was 7 minutes and 30 strikes ( fast and not a lot of strikes ) and the jds fight was a back and forth fight that lasted 14 minutes and a total of 80 strikes where he was finished with a single strike. So you keeping saying a hundred punches, faster, etc but your argument has no proof.. in his last 7 fights he is 3 wins 3 losses 1 draw. his total fight time for his wins in those 3 fights 14:40 and the only real striker he faced who could test his chin was roy nelson who connected with 15 punches in that fight so hunt wasn't really tested.

so to recap

1. you say I'm flipflopping around - I'm not. I'm still saying he has a suspect chin and I have proven why I feel that way.
2. you say he is only finished by these brutal beatings and serious abuse- that's a lie. the only fight that applies too is the stipe fight.
3. you say I'm not answering questions - but I have answered every single thing thrown at me with facts not assumptions.
4. you asked why is his chin questionable - 3 tkos/kos in his last 7 fights is why I feel that way ( junior fight was a single shot ko and werdum hit him with a knee that he should have ate and stayed on his feet imo) and that is why I feel at this stage when he fights elite strikers he doesn't have the chin he use to have
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:05 pm

Krieger wrote:
We all want our MMA heros to last forever but time, number of hits to the head, rounds in the ring etc all conspire to diminish a fighters ability to receive continuous blows to the head. As he moves through the sport "chins" will "become suspect" or better put ability to absorb and recover from concussive blows to he head will lessen more and more. One hopes they retire before permanent serious damage occurs.

thank you. I agree with this 1000% +1
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:07 pm

I couldnt disagree with you more on the Werdum knee. That was effing devastating and right on the chin. Nobody else withstands that.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:31 pm




multiple fights where that same knee lands flush on several people



12:53 and 14:19 -- have no idea why Goldberg said it was an uppercut



3:30 mark shows browne ate the same knee
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:39 pm

Dude I dont know what to tell you.
We must be using two totally and completely different eye prescriptions. Those knees look NOTHING like the one that Hunt took imo. The three knees that you are pointing out that are supposedly the same were standing knees that barely grazed the opponent and the one that hit Hunt was a flying knee that landed kneebone flush to jaw. Not even remotely close.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:09 pm



werdum dipped to fake a take down and it set hunt up for the knee. werdum said that in an interview after the fight. that was exactly what he planned to happen.he dipped, stepped into the knee and yes his foot went off the ground.

go to the travis browne video. put the cursor at 329 then play/pause it until the knee is absolutely flush on his chin and look at werdums foot because it is also off the ground. same knee without the dip to fake the take down

but I guess we could agree to disagree or whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:50 pm

Yeah I'm still with FistK on this. It's like you're not seeing or trying not to see some thing in these fights that are clearly there.
You keep saying you're answering all these questions with facts, but these are opinions, not facts. Just because youre choosing to say one knee is not equal to another knee or whatever doesn't mean you just "proved" it with "facts".
So whatever, I guess he has a "questionable chin" whatever that means because having a questionable chin is what you have if you get knocked out by spinning JDS heel kicks to the head and flush jumping knees to the face from Werdum and take over 300 punches from Miocic.

I guess that's where we're at.

I don't Know
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:12 am

drainbamage wrote:


go to the travis browne video. put the cursor at 329 then play/pause it until the knee is absolutely flush on his chin and look at werdums foot because it is also off the ground. same knee without the dip to fake the take down


Ive watched it 50 times. Its nowhere near flush imo. In the hunt fight it was a jumping knee that landed and he drove all the way through and in the browne fight the knee barely reaches his face as Browne is pulling away. Honestly, I am not being biased but I wouldn't consider the Browne knee much more than a graze.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:46 am

FYI - I emailed my buddy who I talk mma with every day (not that he is any kind of expert, just another opinion) and he felt the same as me.

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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:28 am

http://www.mmamania.com/2014/4/20/5632562/ufc-fox-11-results-recap-fabricio-werdum-vs-travis-browne-fight-review-analysis-mma



http://www.foxsports.com/ufc/story/fox-ufc-saturday-in-orlando-live-fight-blog-041914




http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/4/19/5629808/ufc-on-fox-11-live-blog-fabricio-werdum-vs-travis-browne



http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/UFC-on-Fox-11-Results-Werdum-vs-Browne-PlaybyPlay-Updates-66675



http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/10808877/fabricio-werdum-dominates-travis-browne-eyes-ufc-title-shot



http://www.mmaweekly.com/ufc-on-fox-11-play-by-play-fabricio-werdum-vs-travis-browne



werdum dips jumps hits flush with knee pushing brownes head back blows his nose and appears to be a bit wobbly on his legs



werdum dips jumps hits flush with knee dropping hunt. * there is a bit more distance between them which I didn't recognize before but to me this knee is very similar or close to exact with the only difference is the small amount of distance between them

if you guys say that knee didn't hit browne flush then so be it. I see it hitting him flush on the chin, him being backed up by it, blowing his nose out, and legs seem wobbly.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:32 am

notice how brown is putting his head down towards the knee while it is coming
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:47 am

Ok dude i give. You are right we are wrong lol.

Im out of this one.
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:27 pm

This is the craziest discussion I've seen on here in a long time!

lol! lol! lol!
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PostSubject: Re: a few things about the current ufc HW division... im bored at work!   Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:33 pm

I know..

but in all seriousness you do not see the same exact knee thrown in each video?

he dips in both of them , he jumps, knee lands flush on both.

don't forget hunt is about a foot shorter than browne also.

just a yes or a no and I swear I'm done
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